Looking for safety pilot out of West Georgia Regional

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Looking for safety pilot out of West Georgia Regional

Posted by Kenneth Stallings on Jul 18, 2017 11:44 pm

Have reserved a Cessna Skyhawk for this Saturday, 22 July, between 13:00 and 15:00 to practice instrument work, and the people I would normally coordinate this with are all out of town.  Looking for someone who would like to be safety pilot while I'm practicing under the hood.  Totally free of expenses for you.  And of course you can log primary time as a safety pilot.  The airport is West Georgia Regional in Carrolton, but if you are near the area, I could provide directions to the airport.  If interested, please reply and let me know.  Cheers!
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Re: Looking for safety pilot out of West Georgia Regional

Posted by Ronald Levy on Jul 19, 2017 9:19 am

Kenneth Stallings:
And of course you can log primary time as a safety pilot.

What's "primary time"?  If you mean "pilot in command" time, there are a lot of issues which must be resolved before someone acting as safety pilot can log PIC time.  That option is open only if the safety pilot is actually acting as pilot in command, which includes meeting all PIC requirements (flight review, landing currency, etc), having full authority over the flight (i.e., you have to do what the safety pilot/PIC tells you, including ceding control of the aircraft), and taking complete responsibility for the flight (if anything bad happens, like an accident or violation, it's on their head/ticket/wallet).  If you're renting this plane, that also means the safety pilot must be acceptable as PIC to the aircraft owner and the owner's insurer.  These reasons are why safety pilots usually log only second in command time when flying in an aircraft obtained or provided by the pilot flying under the hood.  Suggest you do a bit of checking to make sure it's all OK before telling someone it's OK for them to log PIC time when acting as safety pilot while you're the sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft you've rented.

Re: Looking for safety pilot out of West Georgia Regional

Posted by Kenneth Stallings on Jul 21, 2017 12:48 am

Ronald Levy:

Kenneth Stallings:
And of course you can log primary time as a safety pilot.

What's "primary time"?  If you mean "pilot in command" time, there are a lot of issues which must be resolved before someone acting as safety pilot can log PIC time.  That option is open only if the safety pilot is actually acting as pilot in command, which includes meeting all PIC requirements (flight review, landing currency, etc), having full authority over the flight (i.e., you have to do what the safety pilot/PIC tells you, including ceding control of the aircraft), and taking complete responsibility for the flight (if anything bad happens, like an accident or violation, it's on their head/ticket/wallet).  If you're renting this plane, that also means the safety pilot must be acceptable as PIC to the aircraft owner and the owner's insurer.  These reasons are why safety pilots usually log only second in command time when flying in an aircraft obtained or provided by the pilot flying under the hood.  Suggest you do a bit of checking to make sure it's all OK before telling someone it's OK for them to log PIC time when acting as safety pilot while you're the sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft you've rented.

 

Well, I was looking for someone to fly with Ron, and not a lecture!  All of the information you quoted comes down to the proper application of CFR 91.109 as well as 61.51(e)iii, which authorizes the safety pilot to log pilot-in-command time when "more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regularions under which the flight is conducted."  Obviously, a safety pilot, while the pilot manipulating the controls is simulating IMC, meets the "regulations under which the flight is conducted" provision!

Also, as a CFI, you should understand one never makes assumptions, especially when seeking to find fault with others!  That's just not how things should be done.  And you quite obviously chose to take a mighty assumption as to my intentions.

Also, given the safety pilot is there precisely to take control of the aircraft to avoid traffic, or to recover from an unsafe flight condition, the reasonable assumption is that the safety pilot should act as PIC to have that ultimate level of authority, plus be the pilot primarily responsible for VFR traffic avoidance and safety of flight.  One should also presume that the person renting the aircraft has the full approval of the aircraft owner when the plane was reserved.

Additionally, the term "primary time" comes from my 29 years in the USAF, where I was an instructor navigator, an instructor pilot, and an evaluator pilot, plus a graduate of the USAF Advanced Instrument School, and a certified instrument instructor in the Air Force.  So, you'll just have to look past the military jargon being used in a civilian setting as that's what comes natural, and frankly I think I earned the right to use that lingo.  

Continuing the logic, primary time means in the USAF that you are a crewmember (pilot, co-pilot, or other member on the flight orders) performing your assigned duties.  If one wishes to convert to purely civilian standards (such as for an interview with an airline) then a pilot must convert his primary time logged as co-pilot to SIC hours.  Mostly, the time spent in the left seat would count as PIC time, but also either instructor or evaluator time.  So, as you can now see, the context is entirely appropriate regardless if one wishes to log SIC as safety pilot or PIC hours.  As an aside, the USAF also has a category called "other time" which is most often used when on flight orders but not performing primary duties, as well as secondary time, which was used rarely and in my experience only when performing a visual scan duty using night vision devices while not performing primary flight duties.

Finally, thank you for reminding AOPA members why the forums are not so often used because of people like yourself, who seem to enjoy making himself the center of attention with a spring loaded disposition to lecture people vice communicate!